caelenlim (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

great videorawr. some1 needs 2 come have sex with me! J6

gujiseki (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

wow this was very interestingDon't know if stoicism will bring happiness, but something to look into.

Stevehtegreatgr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Having said that, I have to conclude that that's exactly why I "railed" against Stoicism, it hypothesizes a duty which is not there. If you have a duty then you're an agent. The argument of one being an agent -though- is fallacious by design, since we have no proof of anything -apart from us- to be logical in nature, thus we cannot act on behalf of anything, even logic since -even that- is an anthropic concept.

Stevehtegreatgr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

we're only born with instincts which we identify as needs. You could hardly call them a duty as not doing some of them may not ultimately drive you or your fellow humans to their doom, like for example the sexual life (there were many asexual -by choice- people in history who where rather beneficial rather than harmful to humankind, Da Vinci is a great such example). I don't think that socializing is anything different than drinking a glass of water when thirsty, or sleeping when you're tired.

Stevehtegreatgr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I'm sorry to say but where do you get the fact that we're born with the duty to serve others? Sure we're born social animals, that's why to socialize is one of our prime needs, but there are people who would stop socializing with their original family (the one they were brought up) but still feel no drawbacks (because they socialize with other people). Think it like a quick fix. Since we're evolved and not created (as I have remarked on my previous comments),

gdroxor (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

If you feel "oppressed" by your duty, then you are worrying about something far out of your control (destiny), and aren't truly a Stoic.

RupertBirkin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Wether he was happy or not no-one can be certain. We've obviously read the similar texts and formed different judgements - i don't think we can try and establish 'who is right here. I believe we are born with duties; as social beings we have a responsiblity to our families this circles then envelops our friends then extends to collegues etc Only Stoic try and put a final and far reaching circle over the rest of humanity also.( sorry to 'bang on' about it :o) )

Stevehtegreatgr (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Good for you. I have -however- both met and read about stoics and I always had the idea that those people feel really oppressed by their sense of what they consider their "duty". As a matter of fact we're born with no duties (that's why we're not agents of any force or spirit), thus we have no reason to hypothesize that we gain a "duty" as we grew older. Marcus Aurelius is a great example of a virtuous stoic, I'm not sure -however- that he was ever happy with his life though.....

RupertBirkin (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

You're wrong on this. We see are ourselves as part of nature, hence 'living in accordance with nature' bringing us happiness. I'm a Stoic and i'm not depressed. Also, i don't view death as a release - It's an indifferent.

NaughtyDevilMonkey (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

>>> not everyone can bear it for one, - no, but you can still do your best, and that is the virtue of it>>>we don't have to be miserable from the inside - the truly virtuous man is apathetic to misery: a) If you CANNOT change misery, don't worry about it, b) If you CAN change it, stop whining and just change it. Your definately right about the hedonism though...!